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Doctor SHIBLEY. I would not attempt to go into that subject just now. Mr. TINCHER. I know we have not a tariff on any article that contemplates that much protection.

Doctor SHIBLEY. I think there should always be

Mr. JONES. There is no way to tell the difference in the cost of production. Doctor SHIBLEY. I am merely outlining the broad field before going into details. Real international law is to be developed by means of international conferences, as proposed in the Republican national platform. Democracies have come into being which call for international conferences in the place of the old-style system of international relationships.

This program as a whole is the new progressivism, a middle course between the programs of the progressives and the conservatives each side has been partly right and partly wrong. The new middle course when applied will result in the permanent retention of privately-owned industries, so as to retain voluntary agreement-freedom, on the basis of equal rights, an industrial democracy, and be accompanied by real political democracy.

The alternative to this liberty-giving program-a program which when installed will result in a wonderful prosperity, would be an attempt at trade-union rule, to result disastrously. The urge of evolution is such that it must be recognized and provided for, which means that the elements of freedom are to be applied.

III. This is a new viewpoint, the lifting of the obscurity as to man's future. For eight years there has been taking place a vast amount of intense suffering, but the end of our judgment day on earth is at hand, we predict, as is evidenced by the gradual lifting of the obscurity as to man's future. In nation after nation of the self-governing stock there has been taking place the completion of the transition to the full-fledged rule of the people, that is to become merged into an unparalleled prosperity and world peace. Evolution, development, is taking place.

The cause of eight years of intense suffering has been the wrong-doing by the nations during the past centuries. Wrongdoing raises up evil forces which react upon the wrongdoers. By recognizing this moral law, a law of the universe, we have an explanation of the underlying cause of the international World War, and the cause of the ensuing world-wide class war. As soon as the piled-up evil forces caused by the wrongdoing of the nations shall be dissipated there will ensue the needed harmonyharmony between labor, capital, and industrial leadership; and harmony between the occupations; also, harmony in international exchanges; plus harmony in international relationships in general.

IV. The master key to an understanding of how this much-needed harmony is to come about is to recognize

First, the existence of peoples of self-governing stock, as compared with the peoples who are not of self-governing stock. The Russians are not of self-governing stock, and they went over into communism—an unworkable system.

Second. Recognize the need for the application of the elements of freedom in planning for reform. Freedom is to be the outcome of the development of the peoples of self-governing stock. Two thousand years ago there existed in northern Europe peoples who were really self-governing self-governing individually and collectively, real majority rules, a new high level for humanity on our planet. They are classed as the Nordics-the peoples of northern Europe, they and their descendants in other parts of Europe and throughout the world. During the years 300 to 500 A. D. there took place the great migration to southern and western Europe, resulting in new nationalities, peoples of self-governing stock, combined with the intellectual and the artistic qualities of the great Keltic subrace. These peoples of self-governing stock possessed traits which, in connection with Divine guidance, have resulted in a tendency toward freedom, culminating in real freedom in various parts of earth, freedom, a system of self-government, and the resulting industrial system, will be the normal condition of these peoples whose ancestors were actually free in northern Europe when the curtain of written history was raised by Julius Caesar, and then by Tacitus.

V. This viewpoint gives the needed basis from which to understand the progressive changes, especially of the past 23 years. During the past 23 years the peoples of self-governing stock have come into power, in nation after nation, the result of peaceful revolutions at the polls. Then they were attacked by armed autocracy, the military States, the Central Empires. For four and a third years the bloody conflict raged, and more suffering was caused than by all of the preceding wars between the peoples of the white race for a thousand years. The people won, foiled by the dismemberment of the military states and the freeing of their subjects. Also after the close of the international World War there was started a world-wide class war. The intense sufferings from these wars have dissipated, we believe, most of the piled-up civil

forces which the wrong-doing of the nations raised up, so that the peoples of selfgoverning stock are about ready to advance into full-fledged rule of the people, industrially and politically, the new age, the new freedom, the new democracy, the new republicanism.

VI. In that which I have said, I have outlined the steps for the completion of that full-fledged rule of the people, namely, the change to capital-labor partnership in independent plants, accompanied by an improved system of industry by government regulation, along with restoration of international exchanges of commodities by the use of protective tariffs, the ending of monopoly tariffs, and the development of international law by means of international conferences as called for in the Republican platform-the Elihu Root idea.

A much more complete presentation is in my book of 60,000 words, entitled "The New Progressivism, the Road to Freedom and Prosperity," price 50 cents, paper covers. Bills are about to be introduced in the legislatures and Congress. Two of my bills and a brief statement are published in the hearings of the Senate Committee on Agriculture, the hearings connected with the Norris-Sinclair bill for Government purchase and sale of farm products, page 143.

VII. Permit me to expand somewhat the subdivisions in which you gentlemen are especially interested, the restoration of an equilibrium in the prices received by the citizens in the various occupations.

At present the prices for farm products are about two-thirds of normal, as compared with the prices of other products. The figures are those of the Department of Agriculture.

These farm prices are one-third below normal, as compared with the prices charged in the other occupations. This means that the farmers have lost a considerable part of their capital. The tenant farmers are bankrupt, and the owners of farm land have seen its selling price fade away, along with an increase of indebtedness caused by selling the crops for less than the cost of production, and taxes have increased threefold during the past 10 years.

The real difficulties are so complex as to call for a volume to outline the history of the peoples of self-governing stock and the elements of freedom, to conclude with data showing that during the past 23 years there has been taking place the final crisis for transition to full-fledged rule of the people, to result in the retention of privatelyowned industry, real freedom, and an unexampled prosperity. It is to be the glad new age, to result in the new freedom. The road to this new day we have outlines, namely, the program for voluntary change to capital-labor partnership, to result in profit-sharing, in place of the wage system and class war, the main cause of the existing breakdown in industry and in government-for example, at Herrin, Ill.; and three other sets of reform, to be installed by legislation, namely, the installation of an improved form of Government regulation and the restoration of protective tariffs in place of monopoly tariffs, also the use of international conferences.

VIII. These reforms are to take place as a middle course-a middle course between the program of the progressives and the conservatives; that is, the two sets of opposing forces, the progressives and the conservatives, are a pair of opposites, each side being partly right and partly wrong, the net result having been the civilization of the past, among the self-governing stock. Gradually a development has taken place, culminating 23 years ago in the people's peaceful revolution in France, and then in Australia and the other countries of self-governing stock; in our own United States in

1910-1912.

In each of the countries we have named the change was a people's peaceful revolution, a revolution at the ballot box. In our Republic the few had been in power the larger part of the time since 1844. The masses voted, but they did not rule, while within the new progressive governments, beginning in 1898, the people have ruled, and since the close of the World War there has existed in most of the continental countries the full-fledged rule of the people by means of universal suffrage and an electoral mechanism that results in proportional representation. There is ended the political power of capital-there exists proportional representation on the basis of universal suffrage. That is the existing system in Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, and a few other countries.

In the British isles a different line of development is taking place; all of the coal miners are partners with the coal operators, a system of capital-labor partnership, resulting in profit sharing. This system is spreading to the other industries, to result in full-fledged industrial democracy, after which will come full-fledged political democracy, by means of proportional representation. In the meantime the propertied interests will control the British Government, preventing confiscation. Gradually the capitalists will be paid off from the workman's share of the profits, and this wealth will be invested very largely in the tropics and semitropics, to the benefit of everyone.

Mr. CLARKE. Do you think there is more intelligence behind that than the intelligent leadership of a few?

Doctor SHIBLEY. I am pointing out that the people are coming into power by proportional representation, and the political power of capital is actually ended in Belgium, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Italy and a few other countries.

In the British isles a different line of development is taking place

All of the coal miners are partners with the coal operators, a system of capital-labor partnership, such as I am asking for, and it is resulting in profit sharing. This system is spreading in the other industries in Great Britian, to result in full-fledged industrial democracy, after which will come full-fledged political democracy, by means of proportional representation, which they now are using on the Continent. In the meantime the propertied interests will control.

Mr. CLARKE. Is not that principle of profit sharing being carried cn in part just now? The Johnson Co. has exactly the purposes as you have outlined, and have for the last 15 or 16 years, and the Steel Corporation also has. The Steel Corporation urges all of its employees to buy stock on an easy payment plan, and gradually the employees will absorb the control of the Steel Corporation.

Doctor SHIBLEY. Here is the big point I am asking: In Great Britian the few are in power, and they will continue to control the Government and prevent confiscation. Gradually the capitalists will be paid off from the workingmen's share, and this additional wealth will be invested in the Tropics and semi-Tropics.

Mr. TINCHER. You mean we will get rid entirely of the capitalists?
Doctor SHIBLEY. Exactly.

Mr. TINCHER. That will amount to a reformation of human nature?
Doctor. SHIBLEY. Not at all.

Mr. TINCHER. You are not afraid that one of these employees will develop such thrift that he will buy the interest of his less thrifty employees, and will become, as is the history of the past, the capitalists of to-morrow?

Doctor SHIBLEY. The explanation is that we have been living under the rule of the few. The change to the rule of the people will result in the restoration of equal rights in industry-a system of profit-sharing.

Mr. JONES. The point Mr. Tincher is making is that one of these, who is a partner, may, in the course of time, accumulate the rights and interests of less thrifty, and in turn become the men in control of the situation. How will you fix that?

Doctor SHIBLEY. When we restore equal rights in the competitive system, that will be cared for. We want people to have different rights in proportion to their ability. Mr. TINCHER. How many capitalists to-day are there that became capitalists because they were more thrifty?

Doctor SHIBLEY. It is a well-known fact that the basis of the Rockefeller fortune was special privilege from the railroads-rebates; and that is true also of the Carnegie plant.

Mr. JONES. That hastened it very much, and has been largely responsible in many instances for the rapid accumulation of wealth of rich men.

Doctor SHIBLEY. That is true.

Mr. JONES. But in the course of time it looks like there would be danger of the very thing Mr. Tincher suggests.

Mr. CLAGUE. Is that true of Ford?

Doctor SHIBLEY. No, he is doing it by ability and invention.

Mr. TINCHER. By reason of invention and because of the fact that he is a good business man?

Doctor SHIBLEY. Yes; and that idea of individual possibilities must be retained through independent plants, in connection with profit sharing.

Mr. TINCHER. You spoke of a coal miner, the owner of a coal mine going in partnership with his employees?

Doctor SHIBLEY. Yes.

Mr. TINCHER. It is my honest judgment, unless you can reform human nature that if a man takes a $1,000,000 coal mine, and forms that partnership, there will be an outstanding employee, that, in the next generation, will be known as a capitalist, because he will gather up the stock of the other employees, and come forward; while you have mentioned the exceptions to the rule, the general rule is our capitalists to-day have not had governmental preference, such as the Rockefeller railroad rebates and the rebates granted to Mr. Carnegie, but has come up from the bottom of the ladder.

Mr. SHIBLEY. We had a swarm of trusts until 1913.

Mr. ASWELL. What bill do we have under consideration?
Mr. TINCHER. The price fixing bill.

Mr. JONES. He is speaking in opposition to the Norris-Sinclair bill.
Doctor SHIBLEY. I have about finished my statement.

We in the United States are doubtless to advance along lines similar to the developments that are taking place in the British Isles. The output of products will be increased tremendously, an increase of 30 to 50 per cent per hour in the system of capital-labor partnership. Our United States will thereby continue her industrial supremacy, along with supremacy in freedom-giving ideas along all lines, to result in the federation of the world and world peace.

Such is the forecast of the New Progressiveism. The conservatives have one for the permanent retention of privately-owned industry, and the progressives are to be successful in their championship of equal rights.

IX. I shall be glad to answer questions.

Mr. TINCHER. Conceding that there is merit in the statement you made, is there anything that a lawmaking body can do to bring about the cooperation that you have spoken of?

Doctor SHIBLEY. Most assuredly, I was speaking a moment ago of the needed mechanism for Government regulation. The farmers should see to it that Government regulations shall be such that the business interests shall lose their special privileges, which they now possess. Through trade associations the business interests possess monopolies in every direction. By means of these monopolies the business interests have raised their prices in every direction; and the wage workers by means of trade-unions have raised wages; while the farmers have not been able to raise their prices, with a few exceptions. Thus the prices for farm products are very low and other prices are high. That is the situation.

Mr. JONES. As I understand it, you intend to keep private ownership of property? Doctor SHIBLEY. That is my idea.

Mr. JONES. You expect to have a partnership interest on the part of all who work? Doctor SHIBLEY. Yes, sir; that is my plan.

Mr. JONES. And you propose a law for Government regulation?

Doctor SHIBLEY. Yes. Two of the bills I am proposing are published in the hearings of the Senate Committee on Agriculture concerning Government purchase and sale of farm products, pages 149–158.

Mr. CLARKE. How do the remarks of Doctor Atkeson, before this committee, strike you-Doctor Atkeson, of the Farmers' Grange?

Doctor SHIBLEY. I am working in harmony with the main points of Doctor Atkeson's statement.

I thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. TINCHER. In view of the fact that the gentleman made a very illuminating statement, and has only introduced himself in a modest way, I would like to have inserted in the record the statement to which he referred, "Who's Who in America." I think that ought to go in, because we might wish to look up his testimony.

Doctor SHIBLEY. I would like to put in a letter from Senator Robert L. Owen to the chairman of the Federal Trade Commission some years ago.

Mr. TINCHER. I would like to have that, because we might want to refer to your testimony.

Doctor SHIBLEY. I will be very glad to do that.
The CHAIRMAN. You may do that.
(The letter referred to is as follows:)

Hon. JOSEPH E. DAVIES,

COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND CURRENCY,

UNITED STATES SENATE,

February 10, 1915.

Chairman Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR MR. DAVIES: My dear friend, George H. Shibley, Esq., tells me that he would like to be one of your corps in the Trade Commission. He is diplomatic, learned in all questions of statecraft, a most industroius worker, a man of great experience, the most valuable man we have in promoting the progressive doctrine of popular government, and I believe he could be very useful in your work. I am glad that he feels disposed to put his services at your command. You will, in my opinion, find him a valuable counselor and capable of performing almost any task that can arise in your new and most important and difficult field.

Yours very truly,

"I put a high estimate on Shibley. He is pure gold."

ROBT. L. OWEN.

(The article referred to in "Who's Who in America," is as follows:) 'Shibley, George Henry, sociologist; born at Randall, Wis., September 4, 1861; son of Jacob B. and Marriet (McClellan) S.; studied Union College of Law, Chicago,

1885-86; admitted to Illinois bar, 1888; took special courses University of Chicago, 1893-94; married Alice Smith Patterson, 1906. Founded Bureau of Economic Research, 1899; director Research Institute, Washington, D. C., since 1900; president League for World Federation since 1914; president People's Rule League of America since 1901. Expert to United States Senate committee in framing Federal reserve act and food and fuel act. Nominee for Vice President United States by Continental Party 1904. Member bar Supreme Court of the United States. Author: The Money Question, 1896; Outline of Social Evolution, 1898; the Monopoly Question, 1900: the People's Rule in Place of Machine Rule, fourth edition, 1906; Preparedness Plus, 1916; The Road to Victory, 1918; the League of Nations, 1919. Home, 1869 Wyoming Avenue; office, Bliss Building, Washington, D. C."

(Doctor Shibley's letter, which follows, explains corrections in his testimony.) THE RESEARCH INSTITUTE, Washington, D. C., February 2, 1923.

Hon. GILBERT N. HAUGEN,

Chairman House Committee on Agriculture.

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: This letter is to explain that as concerns the paragraphs with a line drawn through them in the transcript of my testimony, I called at the offices of the three members of the committee and the two who were in readily consented to omitting the interruptions as I am trying to get my summary into compact form so that a reader can get the ideas. Mr. Tincher's secretary stated that he supposed there would be no objection to omittng the question by Mr. Tincher. I should have noted on the transcript that the secretary had so stated, or have called again at Mr. Tincher's office after he had returned to the city, but in the rush of work I supposed that the matter was settled amicably. I am sorry to have been the cause of a discussion.

Very sincerely,

GEO. H. SHIBLEY.

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY A. MULLER, OF SIOUX FALLS, S. DAK.

Mr. MULLER. I want to say to the committee that I came here without any expectation of presenting anything to the committee. I was here on other business and visited with Mr. Christopherson, and, of course, we, as farmers, were interested in the outcome of the stabilization bill, and he suggested that I present what views I had to the committee. I said I would present my own personal views, and I will state to you that I represent no organization. I am here to tell you what I think as a farmer, because I have been interested in farming in the Dakotas for about 45 years.

Our condition in that section of the country at the present time is very serious, both from an agricultural and stock-raising standpoint.

During the years of high prices we were held down by what was considered a very necessary act for the stabilization of our wheat prices. We were also given a partial stabilization of our meat prices. So that we were not able to get in, so far as wheat was concerned, on the great rise that other commodities were able to reap as a result of the war.

For instance, our price of wheat went up about two and a half times, and about the best price we were able to get after the stabilization of wheat prices was $2.20 a bushel. Prior to the stabilization of the wheat prices we could go out and buy a pair of overalls for $1.90 or for $1.10, according to the quality. After the war had proceeded a while and when we got up into 1918, the price of wheat stayed the same, but overalls went up to $4, $4.50, and as high as $5. Shoes and other things we consumed went up in about the same proportion. Farm machinery rose and stayed. Our farm machinery to-day is, on the average, 60 per cent higher than it was in any pre-war period.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the present price of a binder?

Mr. MULLER. From $190 to $225, according to the equipment that is on the binder. The CHAIRMAN. How much for a 6-foot-cut mower?

Mr. MULLER. For a 6-foot-cut mower $70, for the same mower we used to buy for $40 and $45. We are up against that condition and what little surplus we had that we accumulated during the period of high prices prior to 1920 has been paid out, for the simple reason that our income has been smaller than our outgo. We have been doing business at a serious loss every moment of the time since July, 1920. I do not know of a single farmer who has made a profit of any kind when the same rules are applied to that farmer that are applied in other businesses. For instance, take the packing business, take the railroads, take any of those great institutions: The overhead expense, together with liberal salaries, are paid out of the proceeds of the business, and then they are allowed to make a liberal percentage upon the capital

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