STABILIZING PRICES OF FARM PRODUCTS. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Gilbert N. Haugen (chairman) presiding. There were present: Mr. Haugen, Mr. Purnell, Mr. Voigt, Mr. McLaughlin, of Nebraska, Mr. Riddick, Mr. Tincher. Mr. Sinclair, Mr. Hays, Mr. Gernerd, Mr. Clague, Mr. Clarke, Mr. Aswell, Mr. Kincheloe, and Mr. Jones. The CHAIRMAN. The committee has met this morning for the purpose of hearing representatives of farm organizations relative to H. R. 12966, introduced by Mr. Sinclair. What is the pleasure of the committee? Mr. SINCLAIR. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bentley, of Paola, Ind., is here, and if there is no objection I would like for him to be heard first. STATEMENT OF MR. ARTHUR F. BENTLEY, OF PAOLA, IND. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bentley, what organization do you represent? Mr. BENTLEY. Except from my interest in and connection with the Farmers National Council, I do not represent any organization. I have been, since its start, a member of the Farm Bureau organization in my county, and I have been an officer of it for a couple years, up until last year, so I speak really as a man who is doing his own farming. I am not a farmer by birth, but for the last 10 or 11 years I have been trying to do work directly on the soil and have been trying to do some producing. Mr. TINCHER. Are you testifying in favor of H. R. 12966, a bill introduced by Mr. Sinclair in the House and Mr. Norris in the Senate? Mr. BENTLEY. Yes, sir. Mr. TINCHER. I ask that question for the record, because we will probably have several days or several weeks of hearings, and, as I understand it, you do not represent any one out home in giving this testimony, but you are simply testifying for yourself. Mr. BENTLEY. I would like to tell you what I think the change has been in the feeling of the farmers in my neighborhood in the last few years and to a limited extent speak for some of the members of the farm organization. Mr. TINCHER. I mean that you do not appear here as an authorized representative of any organization. Mr. BENTLEY. Not at all. Mr. KINCHELOE. Are you still a member of the Farm Bureau? Mr. BENTLEY. Yes; I am thoroughly sympathetic with sticking to the organization I belong to, but a good many of us do not feel-I will not say that, but I will say I personally do not feel that the State and national representatives of the Farm Bureau s speak for all the members of those organizations. I think the tone is changing quite rapidly. Mr. KINCHELOE. In what way, Mr. Bentley. Mr. BENTLEY. Our county organization was formed about three and a half years ago and two years ago our farmers were interested in the business problem of farming; that is, they would face these problems that came up as a business addition to what they were doing, but at the present time their interest is very much deeper. As you know, all over the country this matter has become pretty nearly a life and death matter with the farmers and they are going into these things harder, and they are sympathetic with a great many movements of reform which they regarded as simply suggestions before. Mr. KINCHELOE. Do you mean by that that there is friction between you and the Farm Bureau now? Mr. BENTLEY. Not at all. You mean me personally? Mr. BENTLEY. No: our local organization has practically gone to pieces, but I am going to work just as hard in that county to revive it and make it an efficient element of the Farm Bureau as I can. Mr. KINCHELOE. You indorse their plan of cooperative marketing, do you not? Mr. BENTLEY. I am thoroughly sympathetic with the cooperative marketing they are actually doing, but I feel in this particular case that in the bill before you we have a very important supplement to that plan and to all the cooperative marketing that is being done, and that is the other thing I would like to speak about. Mr. KINCHELOE. Do you know the attitude of the Farm Bureau as to this bill? Mr. BENTLEY. No, sir; I do not, but I believe that the attitude of the Farm Bureau will be very different in different counties and probably in different States. Mr. KINCHELOE. I am speaking of the national organization. Mr. BENTLEY. I do not. So far as I know they have not yet taken any position. Mr. RIDDICK. You referred to being a member of the National Farm Council; just what is that organization? Mr. BENTLEY. I have been interested in its work for quite a while. I have not been a member of it very long, but the officers of it can tell you much better than I can about that. Mr. ASWELL. What does it do? Mr. CLARKE. Do you not know who the officers are? Mr. BENTLEY. Certainly. Senator Baker, the president of it, is here, and Mr. Marsh, the secretary, and I know it represents a number of large farmers' organizations. Mr. RIDDICK. Which ones? Mr. BENTLEY. Well, I can not tell you just at the present moment. Mr. BENTLEY. Well, I can tell you the list of members that have been connected with it during my knowledge, because I have met the people who have been connected with it, but I can not tell you at the present moment just what the status of the organization is. Mr. RIDDICK. I have wondered if it represents any farm organizations, and if so, which ones? If it represents a number of them you certainly can tell of some of them. Mr. BENTLEY. I can mention the American Society of Equity, the United Farmers Bloc, and the Non-Partisan League, and the Washington State Grange. Mr. RIDDICK. What is the United Farmers Bloc? Mr. BENTLEY. AS I understand it, it is an organization that is succeeding the American Society of Equity, but I do not think it is fair to ask me questions about these matters because you can get it from people much better posted than I am about them. Senator Baker is right here in the room, and I have told you quite frankly my interest. I have been sympathetic with their program for several years and I have attended some of their meetings as a farmer. I try to be as good a farmer as I can because I am interested in productive work. Mr. CLARKE. How much of a farm do you operate? Mr. BENTLEY. I have an orchard. I have 160-acre farm on which I have an orchard of about 1,200 apple trees which I take care of myself. I live on that farm. The trees are about 12 years old. I also own, about 2 miles from there, a 300-acre dairy farm which I operate through a tenant partner. Mr. KINCHELOE. Do you know the attitude of the Farmers Grange toward this bill? Mr. BENTLEY. This bill, as I understand it, was only introduced last week. Mr. KINCHELOE. I was wondering whether any of those organizations had taken any official action about it. Mr. BENTLY. I can easily guess about that, but I do not think a guess would be profitable. Mr. TINCHER. What is your guess. Mr. BENTLEY. My guess is that the National Farmers Grange, the executives of which, if I am correctly informed, represent States in the East which produce about 8 per cent of the agricultural products of this country, would be against it, and I believe as to the very large organizations in the West, as many as 8 or 10 of them would come out in favor of it and about twice that many would be sympathetic with this general plan. I am perfectly frank to say to you that I am guessing about that. Mr. KINCHELOE. Twice that many what? Mr. BENTLEY. State organizations. Mr. KINCHELOE. Of the grange? Mr. BENTLEY. I would not be surprised if that were the situation. Mr. TINCHER. You think the grange is dominated in the East by Mr. BENTLEY (interposing). Again, I want to say that I did not come here with any intention or with any pretense of being able to speak on those points about which you are asking me questions. Mr. TINCHER. I thought perhaps your speaking of the grange as being an eastern institution would account for their being against ship subsidy and the Farm Bureau being a western institution would account for its being in favor of it. [Laughter.]. Mr. BENTLEY. I did not say that the grange was an eastern institution. I said the executive committee of the grange, if I am correctly informed, represents States producing 8 per cent of the agricultural produce of the country; that is, the members of the executive committee come from States that produce only 8 per cent and their spirit, as far as farming is concerned, in my opinion, is representative of that 8 per cent and not to such a great extent representative of the other 92 per cent of the country. Mr. CLARKE. Do you not think those men are chosen on account of their ability? Mr. BENTLEY. I believe you gentlemen know just as well as I do how officials of organizations like that are chosen. Mr. CLARKE. Then do you think it is fair to criticize them? Mr. BENTLEY. I did not criticize them for a moment. I was asked what I thought their opinion would be. I have no criticism of a man who differs in opinion with me, especially on a debatable subject like this. Mr. TINCHER. My purpose in asking the attitude of the Farm Bureau and the grange was because that we, as members of this committee, are looking from a national standpoint at the situation of the farmers of the country, and, while there is no grange organization in my country, I have a high regard for them. The Farm Bureau is in my country, and I want to tell you that it is the best organization that has ever been established in Kentucky and is doing more work for the farmers under this cooperative plan than anything that has ever happened out there. Mr. BENTLEY. I will tell you that it is the best organization that has ever been in Indiana and is doing more good work for the farmers than any other organization in Indiana. Mr. TINCHER. The Grange is organized in my State, which is the best agricultural State in the Union Mr. CLARKE. I will take issue with you on that. Mr. TINCHER. And it seems that in the work of this committee, whenever the National Council comes before it, the hearings develop into a question of the merits and demerits of the different organizations more than in relation to the bill itself. Perhaps it would be better if we would let you tell us, if you have read this bill, and I presume, of course, you have, what part of it you think is good and what part of it you think is not good. Mr. BENTLEY. That would certainly be better from my point of view because you are forcing me to talk about things I do not pretend to know about. Mr. CLARKE. Then go ahead and discuss the bill. Mr. BENTLEY. Have we a general agreement, to start with, as to what the farming conditions are in this country and do we understand that the farmer has suffered a great deal more in proportion than other industries from postwar conditions? Mr. CLARKE. We are all unanimous on that, and you can simply take up the bill and discuss that. Mr. BENTLEY. I do not want to argue that, but I would like to have that accepted as a basis for my statement, and I suppose that is well understood. Mr. KINCHELOE. So far as I am concerned, I have just read this bill over hurriedly and I would like for you to tell us just what this bill is. Mr. BENTLEY. It is a bill providing that a Government corporation shall be formed with a capital of $100,000,000, with the possibility of issuing $500,000,000 worth of bonds, to buy and sell farm produce. Mr. ASWELL. Where do you get the $100,000,000? Mr. BENTLEY. That is to be contributed by the Government as capital. Mr. ASWELL. That is a cash appropriation? Mr. BENTLEY. Yes. The powers of the corporation are to buy and sell the farmers' produce and in addition to act as agent for farmers who do not sell to it direct. Mr. KINCHELOE. Does that mean to buy and sell all the farmers' products of all kinds and character. Mr. BENTLEY. I would say of any kind or character. Mr. KINCHELOE. The whole output? Mr. BENTLEY. No; I would certainly say not. Mr. JONES. Perishable as well as nonperishable products, or just the nonperishable ones. Mr. BENTLEY. My interpretation of the way it would work out under this bill would be the creation of an organization which, if it worked well, and I would hope that it would in an emergency take care of the distribution of farm produce, either by buying and selling or acting as an agent and advancing funds to farmers who put their produce through this organization as a broker. Mr. KINCHELOE. I was wondering just how that would work out and whether it would not be an injustice to some farmers if you did not buy all the products of the farm of every kind and character raised by the farmers, and if you only bought part of the produce, just what part you would buy and what part you would refuse to buy. Mr. BENTLEY. Farming is an industry where the marketing needs of different kinds of produce vary from year to year and month to month, according to the weather conditions and the crop conditions, and an organization administered, as I would imagine this would be administered, would take care of those crops at the time when they were suffering the most from dumping of the products on the market, for fear of a future which the farmer has no way of controlling or really of estimating. Mr. ASWELL. That would include all the farmers. Mr. BENTLEY. It might at any time include any one class of them. Mr. KINCHELOE. In 1919 and 1920 that would have included all of them. Mr. SINCLAIR. That might not necessarily be true. The purpose would be for this commission when it realized that there was a congestion at different periods of the year in different articles, and there is not a ready and free market, but a congested market, to relieve that congestion. That does not necessarily mean it would buy all of the products because it might only buy a very small portion of the products. Mr. ASWELL. Who would influence them in seeing the congestion. Mr. BENTLEY. They would have a knowledge of the marketing conditions of the entire country, of course. Mr. KINCHELOE. What I have in mind, Mr. Sinclair, is this: As we all know, in 1920, when this slump came, the farmers did not have any credit and they were not organized. There were 6,000,000 farmers with everybody for himself and the devil for them all, and as a result the products of the farmers of every kind and character went on the market and there was a slump. I was wondering, if this bill had been in force at that time, with only $100,000,000 of capital and with about $12,000,000,000 worth of farm products which went on the markets, how they could get anywhere with $100,000,000 unless they showed discrimination and helped, for instance, the tobacco farmer as against the dairy farmer. Mr. BENTLEY. In that connection I would like to say that I interpret this bill in the light of the farmers cooperative organizations that now exist. If you ask me what I think is possible, I would say that I do not think it is possible for any board or corporation here in Washington to go out to the individual farmer without intermediate machinery and handle his products; but we have in this country a large number of farmers cooperative marketing agencies. Mr. KINCHELOE. I am very familiar with that, because we have that situation now in Kentucky. We have our tobacco now on a basis so that we are going to take care of the situation ourselves. Mr. BENTLEY. Yes; you can do that most of the time, and the California fruit people are in a financial position where they can take care of themselves, but despite that fact they have joined their individual fruit organizations into a national organization which is including us eastern fruit growers, and its offices are to be opened on the 1st of January. That is the American Farm Bureau's work, and I am mighty glad to see the beginning of that work and I am going to be in it up to the hilt. Mr. ASWELL. What are you going to do with reference to the potato situation, for instance? Mr. BENTLEY. I do not know that I could make an argument, of my own knowledge, about potatoes when they are in a condition such as has existed in this country. Mr. ASWELL. Why could not the potato people do what the tobacco people have done in Kentucky? Mr. KINCHELOE. We are just beginning a cooperative system and we are putting it on such a scientific basis that we are getting all the credit they need from our banks. Mr. BENTLEY. Senator Baker has had a long experience in the potato business, and will follow me, and I will suggest that that question be referred to him. Mr. JONES. Does your bill provide for loans of any character, or simply for buying and selling? Mr. BENTLEY. The phraseology is a little obscure there. It provides for advances to aid in sales. That is point No. 4 in article 9. Mr. ASWELL. That just simply means the making of loans? Mr. BENTLEY. I take it it means loans on collateral. Mr. JONES. Do you think the principal advantage to be derived from the bill would be in the actual buying and selling by the company or the lending of money to the other organizations which are engaged primarily in buying and selling. Mr. BENTLEY. I would not know how to say which was the principal advantage because one might be the best at one time and the other at another time. What I like about this bill is its flexibility. We can talk all we want to about cost plus for farm |