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HUMAN RESOURCES AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIVISION

The Human Resources and Community Development Division is a comparable unit with responsibility for HEW programs, the manpower programs of DOL and housing programs.

NATIONAL SECURITY AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS DIVISION The National Security and International Affairs Division has responsibility for defense and international affairs programs.

MANAGEMENT PROGRAM DIVISION

The Management Program Division has two functions. It is really two separate operations. One function is to provide our internal management and support. The other is analysis of general Government programs such as government wide pay changes or such organizations as the Post Office or the IRS.

CURRENT NUMBER OF PERMANENT STAFF Mr. SHIPLEY. You list 193 permanent staff on page 18 of the justifications; is that the correct number?

Dr. RIVLIN. That is correct.
Mr. SHIPLEY. Is that the total number you have on board today?
Dr. Rivlin. That is what we have on board and committed today.

OTHER THAN PERMANENT STAFF

Mr. SHIPLEY. How about the category of other than permanent staff ?

Dr. Rivlin. Other than permanent staff is a designation for concultants that we use occasionally, very occasionally. That includes, for example, our group of economic advisers that meets a couple of times a year to react to our reports and give us the benefit of their advice.

LIMITATION ON STAFF DID NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN PERMANENT

AND TEMPORARY

Mr. SHIPLEY. The reason I asked that question is that the Bauman limitation did not differentiate between permanent and temporary, as I understand it.

I am sure your General Counsel has so advised you.

Dr. RIVLIN. That is correct. But you also did give us money for consultants. Mr. SHIPLEY. Right. Are there general questions? Mr. Giaimo. Mr. GIAIMO. Yes.

MEETINGS WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF CBO, GAO, CRS TO AVOID DUPLICATION

Dr. Rivlin, the GAO told us in hearings here that they have an informal group comprising top level representatives of your office and theirs, the Congressional Research Service, and some others, and that they meet monthly to work out and promote additional cooperation among the groups, sharing information, providing a report of studies on research projects, and all. ('ould you tell us about that? I understand it is working rather well.

Dr. RivLin. We think it is.

The main product of this groups efforts is a periodic listing of the studies which are underway in the four organizations. Let me show you that.

It is most detailed. But it is proving useful to the four organizations. This is a photo reproduction of the projects underway in the various organizations, which allows each organization to see what the others are doing, avoid duplication and use each other's results where that is possible.

This report is done by the Congressional Research Service and is issued periodically.

In addition to that, the representatives of the four agencies meet together and talk over what they are doing and the ways in which the organizations can avoid duplication. Our representative on that group is our Deputy Director, Robert Levine, and he might want to add to what I have said about it.

Mr. LEVINE. We are proceeding in stages.

The first task was to make sure we are avoiding duplication. I think we want to take it beyond that. In our monthly meetings we are trying to reinforce each other, attempting to make sure our different products in similar areas complement one another. This booklet Dr. Rivlin showed you helps. We are also discussing, at a very preliminary stage, undertaking some joint projects in which each of the four agencies would contribute its unique expertise.

Policy REQUESTS FROM MEMBERS OF ("ONGRESS Mr. Giaimo. What about the area of research projects? There was some concern about requests, not so much from committees, but from Members of Congress.

Can you tell us what your problem is there, if any?

Dr. Rivlin. I don't think we have a problem. We talked about it before this subcommittee in October.

We have worked with the two Budget Committees to develop a firm policy with respect to requests from Members. It wasn't such a difficult problem, because the law really protects us on this.

It defines a hierarchy of clients for the CBO, with individual Members at the bottom. The statute indicates that CBO should not respond to Member requests, except when we have already done a study, when we can provide information already in our files, or when we can provide a publication already issued

We have formalized that policy in a statement which I would be happy to submit for the record. This statement essentially makes clear that that is our policy to refer individual Members to agencies such as the CRS if their request is for information which (BO does not already have available. (See memorandum dated February 19, 1976 on p. 1058.)

HIIGH PERCENTAGE OF WORK FOR BUDGET COMMITTEES Mr. GIAIMO. Is most of your work done with the two Budget Committees?

67-595 0.76 - 67

Dr. RIVLIN. A very high percentage of our work, of the requested projects, is done for either the House or the Senate Budget Committees.

Much of our staff, of course, is occupied in carrying out our statutory responsibilities, such as scorekeeping, where we do not have to be asked-we just have to do it. With respect to requested studies, a very high proportion have been for either Budget Committee, but not all.

ANALYSIS OF BUDGET FOR APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE I would like to take this moment to bring to your attention a quick analysis of the President's budget that we did for the Appropriations Committee. We received a warm letter of thanks from Chairman Mahon. I hope that all of you did get copies of this. We would be happy to make it available. [The letter referred to follows:]

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS,

Washington, D.C., January 30, 1976. Dr. ALICE RIVLIN, Director, Congressional Budget Office, U.S. Congress, Washington, D.C.

DEAR ALICE: I want to express my appreciation for the efforts of the Congressional Budget Office in preparing an overview of the 1977 budget. It is obvious that a great deal of effort went into producing an excellent product in a timely manner under a very tight deadline. This material was provided to all members of the Committee on Appropriations for use in the committee overview hearings on the 1977 budget.

I am informed by the staff that Jim Blum was responsible for much of the work as well as for coordinating the entire project. I will express my thanks to him separately, but I did want you to know that I am aware of his personal efforts in preparing the report. Please express my thanks to all those who participated in the preparation of this report. Sincerely,

GEORGE H. MAHON,

Chairman.

WORK DIRECTLY CONNECTED WITH NEW BUDGET PROCESS

Mr. GIAIMO. Aside from your research work I take it that most of your work—even your scorekeeping, your economic analyses, and all of that—is directly connected with the Budget Committees and allied committees

Dr. Rivlin. I would say that all of it is directly connected with the new budget process and with making that process work. It is, of course, true that the new budget process involves committees other than the Budget Committee. Our function and the reason we came into being is to make the new budget process work.

Mr. GIAIMO. Thank you.

NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES

Now, in reading over your testimony, you indicated you have 193 employees.

You testified in your prepared statement that you have had to shift employees or job classifications and upgrade some of the positions because you needed them.

What are you asking for this year?

Dr. Rivers. We are asking for 15 additional positions.
Mr. GIAIMO. Will that enable you to carry out your mandate?

Dr. Rivlin. Yes; we believe it will. We think it is a minimum figure, that it is a tight figure. But we believe that with that staff we can carry out our mandate.

Mr. GIAIMO. I have no further questions at this time, Mr. Chairman. Mr. SHIPLEY. Mr. Roush?

CBO POLICY STATEMENTS

Mr. Rou'sir. Mr. Chairman-I observe that the office has issued a series of memoranda which have been included in the hearings before the Committee on the Budget. I found these memoranda very enlightening. And they address themselves to many of the questions which have been asked. One on public policy issues, one on congressional testimony, the one that Mr. Giaimo raises concerning requests from members, one on CBO procedures for contracting and appointment of consultants.

There are not too many of these, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if it would not be well for us to repeat that-although I understand it is repetitive.

But I think when people look at our hearings, it would be well if we had these various memoranda included.

Mr. SHIPLEY. All right. We will let the staff work that out. Mr. Roush. In looking them over I found them to be very helpful. [The policy statements referred to follow:]

(Excerpt from part 2 of hearing held Jan. 26, 1976 before the Committee on the

Budget, House of Representatives.]

MANUAL OF PROCEDURES-CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE

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