Mr. FASCELL. I understand, but again there is a difference between directing and requesting. Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. So this is a guide in the form of a memorandum, the effect of which is to impose a voluntary effort on the part of the services? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. So they may or may not comply with this, and that is the reason why we haven't reached an agreement yet, on supplanting the chief military officer with a civilian. Don't you think it Mr. Ross. I wouldn't say it is the sole reason, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Well, it is one of the reasons. would be a fair assumption that since they are not directed to do it, they have a right to argue, to appeal the matter, to discuss it further, and to reconsider it? Mr. Ross. That is right. Mr. FASCELL. And not do it. Mr. MITCHELL. You stated that there are no written reports in connection with this March 29, 1955, memorandum. Mr. Ross. My answer was that I have no knowledge of any. Mr. MITCHELL. I believe you explained to the committee that the Secretaries verbally reported to the Secretary of Defense. Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. MITCHELL. And that is the only thing that you know about? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. MITCHELL. There has been nothing in writing at all? Mr. Ross. I think that is accurate, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Is 5122.5, July 30, 1954, the most current directive of the Department of Defense on policy as pertaining to public affairs? Mr. Ross. This is the most recent directive. Mr. FASCELL. It is the one that binds everybody, since it is the latest one. Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. In other words, that directive has not been modified, supplemented, superseded, or revoked? Mr. Ross. No, sir. Mr. FASCELL. So that is the one we go by today? Mr. Ross. Which actually assigns these responsibilities to the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense, for L&PA. as we call it. Mr. FASCELL. Now, will you explain to me, because at this point I am still confused, and I hate to say that, but I am, what paragraph 4 means in that directive when it says: It shall be the policy of the Department of Defense to maintain a high degree of effective coordination, cooperation, and collaboration between the public information activities of the military departments and the office of the Secretary of Defense in order to avoid duplication and overlapping wherever possible. The military departments, and the Office of Secretary of Defense shall make joint and cross use of facilities, and shall establish consolidated activities to be jointly used by the military departments and the Office of the Secretary of Defense. (See exhibit IV.) Mr. Ross. Do you want me to try to explain that? Mr. FASCELL. Yes. Mr. Ross. Well, I think it means what it says, that the Office of the Secretary of Defense, in this instance, which is what the Department of Defense means, will collaborate and coordinate with the military services in carrying out the public information activities of the Department of Defense. Now, it applies particularly with respect to the joint use of facilities. We have radio and television equipment, desk space, and recording and motion picture devices. Mr. FASCELL. You will agree with me, I am sure, that from paragraph 4 you cannot draw any conclusion that you have direct control or authority over the military departments, not by virtue of that paragraph? Mr. Ross. No, sir. Mr. FASCELL. All right, sir. Let us move to paragraph 5, in which there is a specific delegation of authority to you, or to your officethat is: The Assistant Secretary of Defense, Legislative and Public Affairs, is hereby assigned and shall have the following responsibilities. This is your organic act, as far as you are concerned; is it not? Mr. FASCELL. Now, there is nothing in paragraph (a) that says that you shall have direct control and authority over the military services; is there? Mr. Ross. No, sir. Mr. FASCELL. All right, sir, how about paragraph (b), establishing under the direction of the Secretary of Defense, and in collaboration with the Secretaries of the military departments, all public information and public relations policies and procedures for the Department of Defense, including the military departments, and all other agencies thereof, and insuring the implementation of such policies. Now, how do you interpret that paragraph? Mr. Ross. Well, that my office has a responsibility for adopting policy with respect to public information activities. Mr. FASCELL. For the Department of Defense? Mr. Ross. For the Department of Defense, which includes, in this instance, the three services, and Mr. FASCELL. But you will agree, won't you, that there is a qualifying statement in that paragraph which says it shall be in collaboration with the service Secretaries? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Which presumes if they don't collaborate, that is as far as you can go? In other words, there is nothing in that paragraph, in the assignment of duties to you, which says that the Secretaries or anyone under them in the services must collaborate? Mr. Ross. That is right, sir. Mr. FASCELL. So, so far, this is a purely voluntary coordinating program, and you are given the specific responsibility of trying to bring it about. Mr. Ross. Well, the Secretary of Defense in this instance has assigned to me the responsibility for performing these functions, and in this instance in collaboration with the Secretary of the military department. Mr. FASCELL. All right, sir, is there any directive on this same subject which goes specifically to the Secretaries of the military services other than the one of March 29, 1955? Mr. Ross. I cannot recall one, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Therefore, you are charged specifically with DOD policy, and you are charged specifically with the requirements under this directive of July 30, 1954, 5122.5, in implementing that policy in collaboration with the Secretaries of the military services? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Which is a polite way of saying, to my way of interpretation, and I could be wrong, that the military Services in the final analysis can do what they want to do. Mr. Ross. Well, no, sir; I don't agree with you. Mr. FASCELL. In other words, you think I have placed an erroneous interpretation upon the assignment of your duties? Mr. Ross. No; I think you have possibly placed a wrong interpretation on the way they are carried out in our day-to-day operation, in conferring with, consulting with, collaborating with the Secretaries of the military departments. Mr. FASCELL. What you are telling me, then, is that the Secretaries. of the military departments are actually collaborating? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir; and if there is any instance where there is disagreement, it is certainly resolved by the Secretary of Defense. Mr. FASCELL. But we are agreed at this point that there is no directive which requires the Secretaries of the military services to do this? Mr. Ross. No, sir. Mr. MITCHELL. Then to get back to this March 29, 1955, memorandum, that explains why they did not have to report in any way to you concerning this memorandum? Mr. Ross. Well, I dislike, Mr. Mitchell, arguing with your statement. I didn't say that I had not been informed. I think I have pretty general knowledge as to what resulted from the issuance of this memorandum, and I have so stated to the chairman. Mr. MITCHELL. I wonder if we could request a written statement as to what the Secretaries reported to the Secretary of Defense concerning this directive of March 29, 1955 ? Mr. Moss. Well, we will hold that in abeyance for the moment. We have some other information we would like to get. Do you know why it was felt desirable-speaking for the Secretary of Defense-to substitute civilian for military personnel in the information oflices of the three services? Mr. Ross. I believe that it was thought that a civilian chief of public information for the three services might bring to the respective military departments a broader outlook, and not one that was so narrowly partisan. Mr. Moss. In each of these information offices in the services are there presently civilian personnel working with the military chiefs? Mr. Ross. I believe there are, sir. I cannot answer that positively. Mr. Moss. You indicated, I believe, that there are flag officers in all instances excepting the Marine Corps, and there you have a colonel. Mr. ALLEN. He is acting director; yes, sir. Mr. Moss. You indicated that the change had not been made as suggested by the Secretary because of the difficulty in recruiting civilians to fill the jobs? Mr. Ross. That is one of the principal reasons that has been given. Mr. Moss. I assume this would be a civil-service classification? What would the rating be? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir; and I am not sure that I can answer that accurately. Mr. Moss. It would probably be a 15 or higher, would it not? Mr. Moss. Do you know what efforts have been made by the service Secretaries to recruit? Mr. Ross. I do know that a considerable number of individuals were interviewed by the Navy, and I believe a number were interviewed by Air Force, by the respective Secretaries. I know that to be a fact with respect to Navy. Mr. Moss. Well, we will have some questions for them. I think you indicated that the individual witnesses appearing on behalf of the military departments would be in position to answer these questions specifically? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Might I inquire on that point? Mr. Moss. Mr. Fascell. Mr. FASCELL. Mr. Ross, don't you think it would be a lot better if we met this problem head on by just issuing a directive to the services in which, as a matter of actual direction, the information for release would have to be channeled to your office? I don't want to put you personally on the spot with the question, but I am trying to be objective from a procedural standpoint in trying to get the job done. The responsibility has been assigned to you. The way I read the present directives in the matter of process and procedure, I don't see how you can carry out the responsibility that has been assigned to you. Mr. Ross. Mr. Fascell, if material is prepared for release, if it is in a service and it is thought that it is going to be released, or should be released, the services understand that it is mandatory that it be channeled to our office for review and clearance and release by the Secretary of Defense, by the Office Mr. FASCELL. And this is without directive? Mr. Ross. Well, that is covered, Mr. Fascell, in the directive of March 29. Mr. FASCELL. I thought we agreed a while ago that was no directive. Mr. MITCHELL. I think you are referring to another one. Mr. FASCELL. Oh, there is another directive? Mr. Ross. That is covered in 2 or 3 places, I believe. Mr. FASCELL. Is this the one you are talking about, 5230.9, dated March 29, 1955? (See exhibit I.) Mr. Ross. My papers are a little mixed up here. That is 5230.9. Mr. FASCELL. This sets forth a uniform policy and procedure for the review of manuscripts concerning military matters prepared by military personnel and civilian employees for publication. Have you got it now so you can follow me? Mr. Ross. Yes. Mr. FASCELL. The next sentence says It also prescribes guidance for the official clearance of speeches, press releases, photographic material, and other information. Now, do you interpret this directive as one which goes to the Secretaries of the three Services? 69222-56-pt. 5—————7 Mr. MITCHELL. This directive, Mr. Fascell, is not directed to anybody. Mr. FASCELL. That is the reason I asked the question. Mr. Ross. Did you have a question, sir? Mr. FASCELL. Yes; the question was whether or not you interpreted this directive as one directed to the Secretaries of the three Services. Mr. Ross. Oh, yes, sir; in fact to all individuals in the Department of Defense. Mr. FASCELL. Why, then, is there no distribution of the directive? Mr. Ross. Because it receives general distribution, sir. Mr. FASCELL. In other words, if no distribution is indicated on the directive, itself, it is just distributed Mr. Ross. Throughout the Department of Defense. Mr. FASCELL. Then if this is a direction to the Secretaries, it directs the review of manuscripts concerning military matters and prescribes guidelines for the rest of this material. Am I correct in that-that is in the first paragraph? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Therefore, the guidelines are again in line with the "collaboration" of the prior directive, which of course has not been rescinded or modified in any respect. 5122.5 has not been modified, rescinded in any respect by 5230.9? It is in addition thereto; and they have to be read together? Mr. Ross. And in addition, sir, it is an extension of the Forrestal directive which established in the Office of the Secretary of Defense the Office of Public Information, and as I indicated yesterday, that memorandum dated March 17, 1949, stated: The Office of Public Information will be the sole agency for the National Military Establishment at the seat of Government for dissemination of information to media of public information, civic organization, and other civilian public bodies with the exception of the Congress of the United States. Mr. FASCELL. Now, you are telling me that that is a directive? Mr. FASCELL. It is actually a memorandum; is it not? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. In other words, it is no more than a policy statement? Mr. Ross. Mr. Niederlehner informs me that the practice of issuing directives was not in effect at that time, that all orders by the Secretary of Defense were issued by memorandum. Mr. FASCELL. That is why in directive 5122.5 of July 30, 1954, reference is made under A to the memorandum you have reference to now, Secretary of Defense memorandum "Creation of Office of Public Information For the National Military Establishment at the seat of Government, 17 March 1949." Mr. Ross. You are correct, sir. Mr. FASCELL. I understand now from the legal interpretation by your General Counsel that as far as the Department of Defense is concerned, that memorandum actually has the force and legal effect of a Department of Defense directive as now issued? Mr. Ross. Yes, sir. Mr. FASCELL. Then I would like to ask whether or not the military services so consider it? |