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Major LEROND. That is in connection with the selection board to be established.

Mr. STRATTON. I see. OK.
Mr. KILDAY. Proceed.
Mr. BLANDFORD (reading):

(c) Notwithstanding the last sentence of section 5765 (b) of title 10, United States Code, the Secretary shall, until December 31, 1964, determine the number of officers of the Marine Corps in a promotion zone for promotion to lieutenant colonel on the basis of a consideration of the number of vacancies estimated for the grade of lieutenant colonel in the next 5 years, the required number of vacancies in the grade of major, and the age and service characteristics of the officers in the grade of major. The Secretary may, until December 31, 1964, specify the maximum number of officers who may be recommended for promotion to the grade of lieutenant colonel from within and above a promotion zone established under section 5765 of title 10, United States Code, which reads "in order to maintain a flow of promotion consistent with the terms of service set out in section 5768 of this title and" is suspended until December 31, 1964, for the grade of major.

Major LEROND. Mr. Chairman, this portion simply states that the Secretary of the Navy determines when majors shall be placed in a promotion zone for a different purpose.

Currently it says that majors should be placed in a promotion zone to create vacancies within that grade for promotion up.

With a zone of consideration it needs a different aspect since if there are too many majors in a grade or the age of the majors within that grade becomes too great, then he should set a promotion zone in there to remove these majors to allow the flow to continue and to correct those age and numbers deficiencies.

General WELLER. It simply really implements the previous prescription of the zone of consideration.

Mr. KILDAY. Mr. Huddleston.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. General, the terminal date of the Navy part of this act is 1970, June 30, 1970, but the terminal date on the Marine Corps part of the act is December 31, 1964.

Mr. BLANDFORD. That is just that zone of consideration.
Mr. Kilday. For majors.
Mr. KITCHIN. For majors only?
Mr. BLANDFORD. That is for majors only.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. The Navy cutoff is still 1970 for the zone of consideration in the bill. Why that difference in dates?

General WELLER. This date of a 5-year period applies only to this feature which we have just been discussing, namely, the zone of consideration to be applied to the majors in the Marine Corps.

The other features of this bill, such as the continuation board, and so forth: The Marine Corps would use them just as the Navy, or essentially in the same manner as the Navy up through 1970, and we would visualize the requirements.

In other words, we don't need the zone of consideration beyond this 5-year period, and it applies solely to the Marine Corps and why it is specified there.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. It would not apply to lieutenant colonels and colonels.

Mr. KILDAY. Read the next section.

Mr. BLANDFORD (reading):

Section 5. The President may suspend any provision of section 1 or 4 of this act during a war or national emergency hereafter declared. Such a suspension may not continue beyond June 30 of the fiscal year following that in which the war or national emergency ends.

Captain WILLIAMS. Since this act involves the separation of officers, it might conceivably, particularly in the mandatory provisions for noncontinuation or a consideration for continuation of twice-failed officers be completely out of place in war or national emergency.

Therefore, there is authority to suspend the provisions during any such periods.

Mr. HÉBERT. May I point this out? We are all in a national emergency now.

Captain WILLIAMS. This is a national emergency hereafter declared, Mr. Hébert.

Mr. KILDAY. The next section.
Mr. BLANDFORD (reading):
Section 6. Title 10, United States Code, is amended as follows:

(1) Section 6387 (b) (2) is amended by striking out the words "is, or at any time has been,” and inserting the words “has been continuously” in place thereof.

(2) Section 5707 (a) (6) and 5708(e) are each amended by inserting the following before the period at the end thereof: "in the next higher grade."

Captain WILLIAMS. The first subsection goes back to this question of constructive service and deals with a technicality which has affected the Navy to some extent, very minor, so far, but will affect the Marine Corps very vitally in the case of this zone of consideration, Because these officers who were appointed in the regular service from Reserve status or otherwise take their years of commissioned service from a contemporary, it is possible that if they mave up by early selection, as they will in the case of the Marine Corps zone of consideration, or straight accelerated promotion, where they gain numbers on an officer who has not been passed over, that they will then be picking up additional commissioned service simply by reason of being selected early.

This would relieve that and say that they will take their guide from an officer who always has been junior to them, rather than an officer who in his new status is now junior to him.

Mr. HARDY. I don't understand that, either. Mr. KILDAY. Then the only other provision is the termination date of June 30, 1970.

Captain WILLIAMS. The second subparagraph of section 6, Mr. Chairman, is a rectification of an omission in the original enactment of OPA, where we set the criteria for selection of Reserve officers and temporary officers for promotion to be qualified for continued active duty:

The Judge Advocate General has taken the position that that obviously means qualified for active duty in the higher grade. This would merely supply the language that the Judge Advocate General

Mr. BLANDFORD. What has that to do with this bill?
Captain WILLIAMS. Nothing.
Mr. BLANDFORD. Why not strike section 6 from the bill entirely?

Captain WILLIAMS. It has nothing to do with the purposes of the bill.

Mr. KILDAY. We got enough to pray over here. [Laughter.]

Captain WILIAMS. I should say the second subparagraph of section 6.

Mr. BLANDFORD. What does paragraph 1—why is that absolutely necessary ?

Captain WILLIAMS. That will be necessary, particularly necessary for the Marine Corps, because the majors who are selected ahead of some officer not selected in a zone of consideration will gain numbers and thereby might pick up his years of commissioned service, which would be in advance of the years of commissioned service he previously had.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Oh, I see.
Mr. KITCHIN. Why the necessity for the language "is”, then?
Captain WILLIAMS. Sir!
Mr. KITCHIN. “Is, or at any time has at any time been"?
Captain WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. KITCHIN. Why the necessity for the "is”?

Captain WILLIAMS. That is the present language in the law, Mr. Kitchin. We, in effect, say that it will hereafter be an officer who has been continuously passed over.

Mr. KITCHIN. Oh, yes.

Mr. HARDY. This, then, would have the effect of limiting the constructive credit that this particular officer could have because he was passed over a bunch of others?

Captain WILLIAMS. That is correct. It would keep him from gaining constructive credit by reason of being accelerated.

Mr. HARDY. He probably will have some constructive credit from the position that he now occupies, but it would keep him from getting any more, is that right?

Captain Williams. Yes, sir, that is correct. Mr. BLANDFORD. I thought we didn't have any of these people in the Marine Corps ?

Major LEROND. What this does, sir, very simply is; If we take a major with 18 years or 17 years of service and select him to lieutenant colonel with another major who has 20 years of service, he then picks up the 20 years of service characteristics for voluntary retirement purposes, although he only has 17.

Now one of the other advantageous features in this is we in the distant future are going to have a rapid turnover in the grade of colonel. Well if this officer who has been moved up is forced to retire 3 years prior to completing, actually completing service because he is now attached to this officer ahead of him, we will lose that advantage, plus this officer would be given 3 years of constructive credit for his retirement.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Which officers are these, major? I didn't know the Marine Corps had any of these people.

Major LEROND. Excuse me. We don't have any officers that have constructive service.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Well, this is applicable only to the Marine Corps. It doesn't apply to the Navy.

General WELLER. That is right.

Mr. BLANDFORD. You don't have any officers who are in this category. Why is the section necessary!

Major LEROND. We need this to prevent the officer who is selected from within a zone of consideration from being retired earlier than he normally would have been had he not been selected under the zone of consideration.

Mr. HARDY. You mean he doesn't now have the constructive credit?
General WELLER. That is correct.
Major LEROND. That is corect.

Mr. Hardy. But if you jump him over a bunch of these people, he would acquire some.

Major LEROND. He would acquire some.
Mr. Hardy. Under present law.
Major LEROND. Yes, sir, under present law.
Mr. Kilday. Then, of course, the termination date of June 30, 1970.
This will conclude the open hearings on the bill.

I want the members to stay for just a few minutes. I will ask Admiral Smith and your staff to remain and we will go into executive session at this time. This will only take a few minutes. We are in executive session.

(Whereupon, at 11:43 a.m., the subcommittee proceeded in executive session.)

EXECUTIVE SESSION Mr. KILDAY. Admiral, I wanted to discuss just a couple of topics with you in this executive session before we go into executive session to write the bill.

I am just wondering why we shouldn't put a provision in here to make sure that your medical officers are not going to be subject to this legislation.

We don't want a law here which would permit the elimination of doctors, dentists, and so forth, at the same time that we are attempting to continue the draft of them. If you are not going to use it, why shouldn't we have a proviso that it will not apply to them, and the nurses also ?

Admiral Smith. Mr. Chairman, I can perceive of no reason why that shouldn't be included in the language.

Mr. KILDAY. I think that will help the proposition a great deal.

Admiral SMITH. I can't perceive the situation over the next 10 years that would occur that would require it.

Mr. Kilday. Well, it could be worded, of course, for that matter, that it would not apply so long as the Doctors Draft Act is in effect.

Admiral Smith. Yes, sir.

Mr. KILDAY. Possibly that way. But any way to make it sure from the bill, itself, that we are not proceeding in one bill to draft and in another bill to eliminate people you already have.

Admiral SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. KILDAY. You don't see any real objection to it?
Admiral SMITH. I see nothing in my future plans, sir.
Mr. KILDAY. Now there is another thing.

I know I feel, and I think that the committee feels, that we want to approach this group to be eliminated with a good deal of consideration, people who felt that they had the security of tenure which we are now going to interrupt.

I personally would like to make sure that insofar as possible, hereafter in years to come, this man won't be labeled as the fellow who was eliminated as the twice-passed over and so on, by something that would appear in whatever you call it—the list of retired or Navy “Register.” That is what the Army calls it, anyway.

Couldn't we put something in here so that the fellow who is selected now and who is going to be one of those eliminated—couldn't we then have it in such a way that he could have his record hereafter show that he was retired upon his own application, after so many years of service, rather than having it appear retired in accordance with public law No. so-and-so, which will label him for all times as having been selected out, perhaps the least qualified, under this particular legislation ?

Now there is one practical difficulty that I see. If the committee should include a separation allowance, you are of course, going to have to retire him under the provisions of this law. But we could word any such provision, if we decide to include it, that it would be payable to those persons who are retired under the law or upon his own application after having been through this selection. So that hereafter his record would just show that he was retired on his own application, retired after a certain number of years of service.

Admiral Smith. Do you see any difficulty there, Jack?

Captain WILLIAMS. Did you intend to put that provision in the law, Mr. Kilday, or were you suggesting

Mr. KILDAY. Either put it in the law or make sure it would be so administered that hereafter in the list he wouldn't forever be labeled. Because it is a situation not entirely of his own making.

Captain WILLIAMS. I think something along that line could be done.

Mr. BLANDFORD. Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that they are going to have 6 months as a minimum with respect to the continuation boards, certainly there could be no problem there to allowing that individual after having been notified that he has failed of being selected for continuation, in permitting him to apply for retirement at any time he wants prior to that date, and still be entitled to whatever separation allowance he might otherwise be entitled to.

Mr. KILDAY. That is what I have in mind. Here we may make available to him an amount of money. And you have in the file that he actually retired on his own application.

Admiral SMITH. Mr. Chairman, may I answer, not completely, but in this fashion. We do permit that now—rather it is done by the rear admirals who fail of continuation after the 5 and 35 years of service. A few say they don't care, it doesn't make any difference, in what appears after their name, in the way of which public law they retired.

But I would like to say,I would like to have that done if it is possible and feasible under legislative language.

Mr. KILDAY. We will attempt to develop something along that line.

Now I want something placed in the record as to costs on any allowance, separation allowance, that you might include. I believe we developed it would be $10 million for each month of the unserved balance of the tour.

Then I think that we would need to put a maximum on that. Mr. Blandford has some figures here. If the Department agrees to those, we can just place them in the records of the open hearings, and that would suffice, I think.

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